radical centrist leaders Re: [RC] Teaching religion in schools?

Dr. Ernie Prabhakar drernie at radicalcentrism.org
Fri Jun 3 12:56:01 EDT 2005 

On Jun 3, 2005, at 7:38 AM, Chris Hahn wrote:

> Billy, et al.,
>
>
> To the extent that we can encourage and control the emergence of a  
> new leader with the clout of Constantine we can help the positive  
> advancement of our world.  However, this is an area in which we  
> should look to divine guidance.  The conversion of Constantine was  
> certainly an act of God.  Yes the environmental and societal  
> circumstances were conducive to the conversion and power of  
> Constantine, but the hand of God directed the events.
>
> A better way to describe my feelings (than pessimistic) would be  
> powerlessness.  As a person I feel quite empowered to take control  
> of my own life and to live it productively, but I do not feel that  
> I have the power to influence grand events like the assertion of  
> Constantine, or the emergence of MLK and Lincoln.  I hope you tell  
> me that I am being too pessimistic in this area also.
I actually am moving slightly closer to Billy's perspective on this.  
To be sure, I'm not counting on another Constantine.  However, I have  
come to believe that the best way for me to advance my ideals is to  
find a "powerful patron."  That is, either an employer, sponsor, or  
promoter who will provide security, funding, and/or publicity for  
developing my general ideas in exchange for my specific assistance  
with their area of interest.

One option, of course, would be to become an advisor to a radical  
centrist politician, which aligns with Billy's modality.  The  
difference, perhaps, is that my actionable goal against that  
objective is to a) develop a public body of work (e.g., blogs,  
documents, and emails) and b) trust-based relationships with people  
of influence -- rather than (merely) waiting on divine providence.

The advantage of my approach, IMHO, is that it leads naturally to a  
fallback position, which is to develop a community of thinkers that  
could also create change on generational timescales, if we don't find  
a leader willing to hasten the process on his (or her) own.   
Ultimately, of course, both are needed: communities without leaders  
and leaders without communities both ultimately devolve into chaos.

-- Ernie P. 
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: Centroids-bounces at radicalcentrism.com [mailto:Centroids- 
> bounces at radicalcentrism.com] On Behalf Of Avesland at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:32 PM
> To: Centroids at radicalcentrism.com
> Subject: Re: [RC] Teaching religion in schools?
>
>
>
> Chris :
>
> You are too pessimistic. Think of what happened in the  Roman  
> Empire after
>
> the conversion of Constantine. In no time at all Christians went  
> from a
>
> terrible persecution under Diocletian to the ruling power of the  
> entire
>
> state. All we need to do is to convert one major figure to Radical
>
> Centrism and we are off to the races. Think positive !
>
>
>
> Billy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/2005 8:45:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> cph at 2chahn.com writes:
>
> Billy,
>
>
>
> Your idea of a UN for democracies and the emergence of magnificent  
> leaders have merit.  They both could make an impact even though  
> their implementation is very nebulous.  Ernie’s response as well as  
> yours made me broaden the time scope of my thinking.  If we think  
> on a multigenerational scale then the idealism has a chance to take  
> root as long as we are headed on the right vector.  The path might  
> not be straightforward but with time we have a chance to get there.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: Centroids-bounces at radicalcentrism.com [mailto:Centroids- 
> bounces at radicalcentrism.com] On Behalf Of Avesland at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:39 PM
> To: Centroids at radicalcentrism.com
> Cc: Avesland at AOL..com
> Subject: Re: [RC] Teaching religion in schools?
>
>
>
> Chris :
>
> I would settle for something like a new UN limited to democracies  
> only,
>
> led by people with genuine commitment to sane moral values.
>
>
>
> For a nation things need to be more specific. Granted that he had  
> limitations
>
> but MLK was a step in the right direction . He raised moral  
> consciousness
>
> across the board. He did not go nearly far enough, but , then ,  
> could he have
>
> done so ? Under the circumstances of the 1960s and his own limitations
>
> this seems to have been an impossibility. But we need a leader who can
>
> move the nation through moral example.
>
>
>
> Lincoln had this kind of universal potential after the Civil War  
> but his
>
> death made that impossible. The point is that while finding such a  
> leader
>
> may be anything but easy, the task is not hopeless  -if we look.  
> Regretably
>
> there is no-one at all now on the political stage who fills the bill.
>
>
>
> What we get is a lot of posturing. Like W's father. Bush 41 said,  
> for instance,
>
> that he wanted to be known as the "education president." What an utter
>
> farse. His conception of this goal was making appearances at various
>
> schools and saying rah-rah education. That is what it amounted to.  
> Study
>
> education in order to understand the field ? The thought never  
> seems to
>
> have entered 41's mind.
>
>
>
> The point is that people get what they deserve when they allow  
> themselves to
>
> be deceived by rhetoric and appearances.
>
>
>
> It is a mountain we need to climb. There is no easy way to the top.
>
>
>
> Billy
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/2005 1:22:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> cph at 2chahn.com writes:
>
> I would agree that truth is singular, but that none of us humans  
> has a perfect understanding of truth.  That leaves a whole lot of  
> different interpretive views of truth.  I simply can’t understand  
> how we can get on the same page.
>
>
>
> Big events (like World Wars) will unify the predominate moral  
> thoughts of a nation in response to a great enemy, but the enemy is  
> also mobilized by unifying moral truths that are quite different.
>
>
>
> In an ideal scenario of world peace we would all resonate with a  
> harmonic view of truth, thus giving us all a great moral common  
> ground.  I don’t have a clue about how we get there.  Does it take  
> a great charismatic leader, perhaps the second coming?  (I am not  
> being facetious.)
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: Centroids-bounces at radicalcentrism.com [mailto:Centroids- 
> bounces at radicalcentrism.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Ernie Prabhakar
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: Radical Centrist discussion list
> Subject: Re: [RC] Teaching religion in schools?
>
>
>
> Hi Billy,
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:41 PM, Avesland at aol.com wrote:
>
>> We have to do better than to "pass the buck," better than to ignore
>>
>> the problem since it is difficult.
>>
>
>
> I think we're all in agreement that a functioning society requires  
> some sort of a consensus on moral *principles*, not just precepts  
> of practices. It is interesting how all of us have different ideas  
> on how to achieve that:
>
> - Chris: abstractions
>
> - Billy: historical specifics
>
> - Eric: logic
>
> - Ernie: apothegms
>
>
>
> I think the first point is to simply to reach agreement on the fact  
> that "society requires a broad-based consensus about moral  
> principles." Then, we'll need dialogue to figure the contextually- 
> appropriate way to inculcate compatible articulations of those  
> principles. Frankly, I believe one could teach roughly the same  
> principles using Bible Stories in Barstwo, logical arguments in  
> Boston, and comparative religion in Berkeley.
>
>
>
> In other words, I believe that truth is singular, but there are  
> many roads to truth, and that the optimal road depends on where you  
> start.
>
>
>
> -- Ernie P.
>
>
>
> P.S. Good luck with your filing, Billy.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Centroids mailing list: Centroids at radicalcentrism.com
> http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com
> Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Centroids mailing list: Centroids at radicalcentrism.com
> http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com
> Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Centroids mailing list: Centroids at radicalcentrism.com
> http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com
> Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/ 
> centroids_radicalcentrism.com/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/attachments/20050603/a271a9aa/attachment-0001.html

More information about the Centroids mailing list